Speaker 1 [0:05]
Welcome to the podcast Medicine Untold and come with me on a journey to the unexplored side of medicine, where we speak with rebel doctors, radical herbalists, unorthodox healers and patients who have healed themselves. Explore the intersection between science and spirituality and discover the power within you. I'm your host, dr Michelle Birkland, licensed naturopathic doctor, botanical alchemist and practicing physician.

Speaker 2 [0:41]
Hi everyone. I'm Dr Michelle Birkland and welcome to the podcast Untold Medicine Today. We have Lauren Mahana with us today and I'm going to read you her bio and we can kind of get into some questions. So Lauren is a gifted intuitive healer, birth doula and host of the podcast Magic on the Patio. She is also the co-author of Labor Like a Goddess, a fearless guide to preparing for the seven gates of pregnancy and birth. And Lauren has a passion for integrating different forms of healing to create a truly holistic experience for birthing families. She also has a powerful drive to help heal the wounds of the collective through the creation of sacred birthing spaces. So welcome, lauren. I'm so excited to have you on today.

Speaker 3 [1:31]
Thank you for having me Gosh, listening to my bio is always so interesting. You can tell that I have a Gemini moon with that very, very long sentence, that run-on sentence.

Speaker 2 [1:45]
Yeah, I'm excited to hear more. I mean to start. I want to hear about how you found your path to healing and how it how it came in for you.

Speaker 3 [1:55]
Yeah, how it was birthed. So I was gifted my first tarot deck and I always forget if it was. It was the summer before high school, so I think it. It was like 14, 15 and it kind of made me go down this little rabbit hole of the connection to my own intuition and to source and spirit or universe. Um, and it started fairly young and once I moved into my early 20s I started down the classic Reiki route, getting trained in energy work and it kind of led me on this self-discovery of the mind, body and soul.

Speaker 3 [2:35]
I was kind of training to be an herbalist. I worked in an herb shop, so I was working with naturopaths and acupuncturists and seeing how connected the physical body is to our spiritual well-being, and that was something that was always kind of separate. You know, in my Western mind of those are two separate things. And that was in my mid twenties and by that point I had started realizing and I was getting a lot of clients coming in that were pregnant and I was I was like, oh, this is such a fascinating world of pregnant people and how they're carrying another soul with them, and it kind of sat in the back of my brain for a few years and then I ended up getting pregnant with my first and it popped back in. Oh my goodness, spirituality is not just an individual experience, it is an ushering in of the collective.

Speaker 3 [3:29]
And so I ended up in my mid to late twenties taking on all of my different spiritual aspects so tarot, astrology, herbalism, energy work and kind of wrapping it into a doula-ing at the same point, and it turned into this kind of collection of all of these different facets of spirituality into kind of like a little mini business type thing of what I do. And so throughout my 20s I was exploring on what, what all of that was, and now that I am officially 40 years old, I can say I am all of those things at the same time and it's pretty awesome. So that's my long winded thing of my, of my journey, of who I am and my spiritual self.

Speaker 2 [4:24]
But yeah, it started when I was a kid and just kept moving, kept moving forward every year, acquiring different skills and different things that have kind of crossed your path, and now you utilize all of them, all of them all of them wrap into one.

Speaker 3 [4:40]
I um, I'm actively not birth doula-ing. I do have pregnancy clients that work through the book here and there, but the skills that I learned while being a birth doula still are ever present in my in-person sessions. So the caregiving, the nurturing, the space holding all of those skills have really integrated into what I do. You know, any sort of energy work and any sort of space holding within my community, which is pretty, pretty awesome.

Speaker 2 [5:17]
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's. That's a really powerful skill to have, and, and the way you acquired it is incredibly powerful. I mean that's not for the faint of heart to go in there and to hold that space for women too.

Speaker 3 [5:31]
And it's. It's fascinating, the the you know, birthing a child is a different experience all the time, right? Every birth is different, no matter how many children, how many pregnancies you have, it's always a different experience. But even for, you know, for doulas it's like every birth is completely unique. And what that does, and same with midwives, I'm assuming, and you know, you know obstetricians but there's you never know what's going to happen and there's something that allows that forces you to not just think on your toes but also be really connected to your intuition, because you truly don't know how the experience is going to go. And so when you're working in the birth world, it is so innately impactful to have that, that tether to your own intuition and to your own gut kind of feelings, but also connected to source. It allows the experience to be so innately spiritual but very, very grounded.

Speaker 2 [6:34]
And were you a birth to them before you became pregnant, Like were you working on that. Or did that come?

Speaker 3 [6:41]
That came after. For me it was like right after.

Speaker 3 [6:44]
so I was thinking about it, because that was me every year, deciding I've to take on a new task, a new, a new role. I'm like, oh well, I do this. I took that class, I took that course you know what else am I going to do? And I was already in the process of starting and then I ended up getting pregnant, um, and it was one of those things where I was like, oh, I don't think it's time for me to continue the training more than just be. And then, after I gave birth, I was like, oh, I need to do this Because my experience, my first experience, overall looking at it, was very magical for a hospital birth, very supportive, but also a lot of boundaries were being pushed and it made me go, if I did not have a really, really supportive partner and who understood the medical system, how do other people do this?

Speaker 3 [7:46]
Who understood the medical system? How do other people do this? And it really kind of stuck with me that like, oh, pregnant people need support in that birthing room and they need someone that's going to be their advocate.

Speaker 3 [7:53]
You know, you can only be your advocate, but you also need someone who's going to speak for you in certain situations, and that really was where I was like, ah, this is innately. Part of who I need to be is is the voice for someone who cannot speak for themselves.

Speaker 2 [8:10]
Yeah, and it seems like during that process too, I mean, while you were pregnant, you coauthored this book.

Speaker 3 [8:17]
That is baby number two. Yeah, oh, okay, pregnancy was a pregnancy was a time of birthing, a lot of different things for me. So my first child and then became doula and then got I like how I say got pregnant. Me and my husband planned a pregnancy and while I was yeah, I was probably about six-ish months along I received it was really cool. I received a message from my co-author, alex, on Instagram, who's like oh my gosh, we do the same things. And I was like, cool, we should chat.

Speaker 3 [8:59]
Won a bid to to like apply to um, how do you describe it? Um to to present a, like a, like a book? Um to to Hay House, which was really cool. And she's like I don't think I can do this alone, but we're almost the same, like everything we're doing is the same, but like on two different coasts, like California, new York and so we decided to put together a book proposal and ended up winning an award, while I was like six months pregnant and we were able to publish this book like it was. It was like it needed to be birthed from the goddess.

Speaker 3 [9:39]
She was like yeah, no, you two schools need to put this together and then birth it out so it can become its own entity on its own, which was really cool. But yeah, so that was baby number two birth the book.

Speaker 2 [9:52]
And I mean it's so powerful that, like you were going through that as you were writing it, so like everything that you wrote about and the processes, especially, kind of like the first time around you were in it, so it's.

Speaker 3 [10:06]
I was living yeah, I was. I was living that experience and then, funny enough, alex, my co-author, ended up. She became pregnant right at the tail end. So yeah so I was actively pregnant while we were creating and writing and like putting the, the chapters together and submitting and all that kind of stuff. And then she became pregnant right when we won the award, and then, like basically started putting the book out and then I gave birth, birth like right before the, the like submission of the book to be like actually published which was pretty cool and I think spirit was, uh, leading the way on that.

Speaker 3 [10:51]
But yeah, having that practical, like hands-on knowledge of not like just the memory of being pregnant but physically being pregnant while writing the book, I think was so innately important. Because you forget everyone you always are like. You never realize how quickly you forget the ins and outs of the daily pregnancy life, why we get pregnant again. You forget the ins and outs. You remember, you remember the overall tone, but it was, I think it captured. This book really captures the essence of a spiritual journey while being pregnant.

Speaker 2 [11:30]
Yeah, and I can feel that definitely too, and I guess our listeners are probably wanting to know more about this book as we kind of discuss it. And what's going on, and to me, I mean a lot of how I practice is mind body medicine. To me they're connected. So everything I do physically I discuss on a different level. And in your book I can really feel that too, especially through how you describe, like, the seven gates. What is it? The seven gates of earth, the seven gates of transformation?

Speaker 3 [12:05]
yes, thank you, it's, it's pregnancy, you know, yeah, no, it's, it's how to prep. You know, it's the prepping. It's the seven gates of transforming from maiden to mother. So it's we. We took off of a very classic and very well known mythology of Inanna right, and there are other birthing books and birthing stories that wrap around that mythology, because it's so innate to the divine feminine. But yeah, each gate is a way to shed and integrate and acknowledge your experience, and it's not linear Some we try to have linear, but really it is. You're circling and spiraling at all times through these gates, but yeah, so the gates represent the transformation of you becoming a new person, which is pretty intense.

Speaker 2 [13:05]
Yeah, I mean, I feel like, yeah, there's so many different transitions you have to go through, but there's there's so much power you can harness, like while you have this other soul in your body, and the energy and the frequency and everything that's going on is like you can really use this time to heal and and to go deeper. But it's definitely a transition, especially for the first time for women, when you have a life in a certain way and then so many different elements change.

Speaker 3 [13:35]
Yeah, there's no going back and that's. I think that's probably the scariest thing and I will use the word scary because it is it's kind of terrifying. And I will use the word scary because it is it's kind of terrifying, especially for modern, you know, women specifically that hold that space of you know needing to sit in the space of their either career or the life that sustains them, but then also becoming becoming a vessel of sustaining someone else. But can you also do what you did before? And you can. You can have it all. It just depends on how that kind of flows through your life. But yeah, I know it is. It's really hard for modern women to say no more, I can't do this, I gotta. I gotta die and be reborn again. But also that goes for the partner and it also goes for the immediate family, it goes for the pets in your life. We all lose a little bit of ourselves to allow another entity to come in which I think is pretty powerful. Got to make space.

Speaker 2 [14:39]
Right and I always feel like it's kind of like all these things are always like the ultimate paradox to. You want to hold on to something so bad because you're afraid to change. But once you let go, the change can be so much more beautiful and so much better than before. But the idea of having to let that go is so hard in itself that it's hard to see and have faith on the other side too.

Speaker 3 [15:03]
Yeah, because I mean that that word right there. Faith, right Cause you, you really cannot predict. Remember, you're the, the entity that you, that has accepted your womb, is an individual, right? You don't know what your birth and you know their personality. You don't even know what the genetic mix of this child will be. You don't even know what the genetic mix of this child will be. You know, which is pretty cool. So you can't, you have to sit in a space of understanding that expectations, even though they're innately human, are almost invalid in this experience, because those expectations, whatever you have, will never come to fruition, no matter what, and that's a hard place to sit as a human even a semi-actively healing human.

Speaker 3 [15:54]
That's why these games are so important for every aspect of life. You know I was sitting with the idea of just making making something or creating, creating something. So this is my false expectation, but more just a manifestation or an intention setting of creating a structure or system that people can use to acknowledge this experience. And that's really it. Acknowledgement is the first step and that's where you'll see the difference of no matter what your birth is, no matter how traumatic it is on the physical end. If you sit in a space of wonderment and hope and faith that you'll come out on the other end, whatever that trauma is will be able to be integrated and not become traumatizing Because it is a traumatic experience. No matter what, there'll be trauma. It just it depends if it will be traumatizing or just a traumatic event.

Speaker 3 [17:04]
And I think these gates give people the opportunity to work through that, which I think is pretty cool.

Speaker 2 [17:12]
Yeah, no, I think it's a beautiful book too, and I'm so glad I came across it.

Speaker 3 [17:19]
Yeah, I was gonna ask how did you?

Speaker 2 [17:21]
find it. I was looking up a whole bunch of different things on how to remove intergenerational trauma, this and that, and it was kind of a long rabbit hole and I was like, oh, what is this? And so I went into it and it spoke to me on so many different levels too. Yeah, yeah I. I don't know how I found you, but I did a google search can can save the day.

Speaker 3 [17:46]
No, it's. It's been really fun to um, basically gestate something, right co-gestate, and then birth something and then let it kind of be. Um, you know, books are interesting. You either either actively participate in its expansion or you kind of let it be because it's not really a business. You just have to decide how active a role you're going to be as a parent, and this book was one of those things where it felt the need to just take a life on its own and it's been so fun to see the people who find it. There are people from all.

Speaker 3 [18:24]
We're very big in Denmark, I guess, which is very interesting, but it's been really fun because I'll get like emails and be like, yeah, like it's just, it's like one of the best birthing books in Denmark. I'm like, wow, this is so cool, I didn't know we would have a reach there. But also just being like good job, baby. Like we helped create you and now you're off healing and actively participating in people's journeys and I think that's there. There's something so fascinating within being able to walk through the gates in so many different ways, of it being, yes, a pregnancy, but also relationships, projects, people in your life. You know these gates are, are tools that you can use in every facet of your life, which, I like, makes it makes it makes it accessible, accessible healing. But I was going to ask you what? What gate are you on?

Speaker 2 [19:22]
I'm kind of all over the place, like I'm back and forth. Yeah, I mean I'm. I'm also reading like about the like the energetic birth plan right, which I believe a hundred percent it comes from energy. But with me also, too, is I like to know that I can change things in my body right, like I can put myself in a meditative state, I can do things. But also it's finding that balance of saying this isn't just my experience anymore.

Speaker 3 [19:48]
Yeah, it's every other vessel of this child's, you know, and that's but that's really yeah.

Speaker 3 [19:56]
So that's actually cool to think about one, not using the gates linear, linear or whatever but using them as a spiral right, so kind of coming back and forth and moving within in a in a grounded way.

Speaker 3 [20:08]
But the energetic birth plan is so cool because what it does is it allows you to set yourself up for kind of spiritual success of spiritual success, you know. It allows, it gives you the grace of having mistakes or not being perfect, and that, innately, is so important within um, within a birth, because you are completely out of control as the person who is innately in control of the body, you are out of control of the entire scenario and of what the baby's descent is going to be. So there's this idea of creating a plan or a loose structure that gives you the grace and the space to fail within, and I like that. I like failing for success Because, sure, you might not even get the doctor you wanted

Speaker 3 [21:09]
. If you're having a hospital birth, your midwife might be sick that day. If you have a doula, they might be in a crappy mood, but still great.

Speaker 3 [21:18]
But who knows, you know, your partner might end up being a fainter, who knows, you know like there's a lot and then you also don't know how the baby is going to descend, the the timeline sometimes, which is, I've actually found, really the most fascinating thing in the doula world, because it's it's coming more from a holistic, natural base. You know natural base and it's like, well, I want a 12-hour labor that proceeds calm and then builds and then there's waves and it's like cool, but maybe you have a rapid birth and this baby needs to be out at the time that it needs to be out. So how are you going to pivot to allow yourself to have a lengthy, rapid pregnancy or labor? You know where you can go. You know what. Actually, three hours was just enough and I still had the experience of building within a shorter amount of time.

Speaker 3 [22:24]
So that's the cool thing about the energetic birth plan and you can fill it out however you like, because when you are working within the system of either a hospital or even like a midwife, a doula, they'll ask you your birthing plans, like, do we want to be medicated? Are we okay with emergency Obviously, hopefully an emergency C-section? But like, are you okay if it's a c-section? Um, who's going to be in the room with you? Uh, are there hard no's of certain things? And you know you never know what's going to occur and in that moment, allowing yourself to understand that fear will be the thing that creates the unhealthy boundary. Sometimes we do have to say yes to the medicine.

Speaker 3 [23:09]
Sometimes we do have to say yes to the hospital, or or the, or the C-section sometimes. And that's, listen, your baby needs to be born. In a certain way, that's, that's also an expectation. You become parent that day, you become mother, you become the caregiver of this soul. But, honestly, it's your baby's first big dance recital, so it's however they want to, you know, flip through the world and you're just there to catch them. So yeah, that's just me pontificating.

Speaker 2 [23:48]
I love that part too, because in your book you talk about you know how like this is like their soul's path and how they enter the world is part of their karma and what they need to go through, and I 100 percent believe that too. That's why, no matter what, I'm not attaching to anything during that time and so, yeah, yeah it's. I, yeah, I completely believe that part like this soul is in me because it's supposed to be and it's gonna come out come out, however they want to come out and you don't part of that yeah.

Speaker 3 [24:22]
I think it's a really cool practice. If you do have the capability of speaking with someone who was a witness of your birth, so if it's your birthing parent, or if there was a space holder, or even if you live in a small town and it's the same doctor, you know, if you have that capability, that is one of those. That's a very specific privilege. But if you do interview that person, have a conversation with what your birth was like, what were their expectations? Was there any hiccups? Was there a giant snowstorm?

Speaker 3 [24:56]
and you guys were stuck, or you know, or they really wanted a tub birth, but there was like you know, they're on well water and they realized they couldn't fill up the freaking tub, like you know what I mean there could be so many funny silly things and anecdotes that you might hear from from a perspective and go, oh my gosh, that's so like my personality to like be born during a snowstorm or or, you know, need to have a c-section. Because, guess what, I'm a triple virgo and I love control and a C-section gave me control over the situation. You know, there could be so many little little things and that might not have been the expectation of the birthing person or anyone in the room, but it's fun to have those kind of conversations. I remember having asking my mom, um, like really pointed questions about my birth and being like, oh yeah, that like makes a lot of sense for me to like, just spontaneously, you were ready and I needed to be here now and done, done, done, done, done.

Speaker 3 [25:54]
And you know, born on my due date. Who's born on their due date?

Speaker 3 [25:59]
No one, but for me it was necessary know and then then talking to her my mom, about my sister well, she was two and a half weeks late and, oh, that makes sense for her. But those are really fun conversations to have because what they can do is it gets you out of the individualist mindset of your labor. Even though that every single labor is its own unique experience, it's still a universal truth, right? So everyone has this unique experience. So why not do some data collection? Especially if you have an analytical mind, you know like, oh, I need to like talk to a bunch of people about their births so that I know that, like, whatever happens to mine, someone else's was crazier or someone else's nicer, or this was like that. It gives you that like leeway of being comfortable within your own experience. So, yeah, I think that's probably like one of my favorite things that this book can offer is giving you the language to have communication with other birthing people, like community such a huge thing.

Speaker 2 [27:08]
Yeah, and like for me as a physician to like my medical scope. It's very interesting because the second a woman gets pregnant. She can't see me until the day after she gives birth, so I miss that whole point, like I've taken embryology, we've done all of those and everything.

Speaker 2 [27:24]
But, in my own clinical practice. That's the area that I miss. I can help them get pregnant, I can work on their fertility, and then they disappear for nine months. So it's like kind of, with this I'm filling in the gaps and I'm learning so much more on so many different levels. So that's like this mysterious element.

Speaker 3 [27:44]
But I wonder for your own journey of why it's a mystery, why is why not saying that, like it's not allowed to be a part of your practice, but like why is this the form of of practice you have during your pregnancy? That this is the the veil of mystery? I wonder that's just something to think about.

Speaker 2 [28:07]
Um, yeah, no, I, and I think like this is forcing me to pay more attention to the area I never did.

Speaker 2 [28:12]
Yeah, like it was always just it was never a big, a big focus for me. Yeah, it was after and and before and helping that part, and I mean it's interesting when I, when I thought I would get pregnant, I always wanted to like go and meditate somewhere for like six months and clear out everything during that time, and my schedule is so packed. It's been the opposite, right, and so it's like my dream was I'm going to create this space, I'm going to meditate, I'm going to clear everything out and going to meditate, I'm going to clear everything out and only spend time doing that in this peaceful environment and then come back and yeah, it's.

Speaker 3 [28:51]
It's fun how uh life just gets in the way, right and then it comes in and yeah, 10 months is quicker than people. It's the the longest shortest time. That's always a phrase that always comes up in pregnancy and then and and and child rearing. Basically that longest, shortest, longest shortest time. But like, yeah, that 10 months flies by and if you're not, like, fully prepped for it, like you can't say you have, you know, just this is what your baby needs. Your baby needs you being working mom right now.

Speaker 2 [29:23]
Yeah, and it's finding peace in the chaos right. Finding how to center in the world instead of away from the world. That's always the test. I always just pictured it not having that, but it's. It grounds me more and it forces me to so.

Speaker 3 [29:39]
It's a really I think that's a really beautiful reminder for you, but also for a lot of modern people, that, like pregnancy and labor, in a weird way, is the easiest part of the journey. So that's, that's what I'm going to say. So not to say you should enjoy this time, not to say to relish in it, because it's still hard and uncomfortable and you're in the midst of the cocoon and you're like in the gelatinous state and you're not even a formed butterfly, right, but it is one of those moments where you get to actually have a funeral that is extended of self over 10 months. You get to say goodbye in a very long way and it doesn't have to be meditative, but it can be. You will never be like this in this moment, right here and right now, because in a couple of months it's gonna be completely different. Baby then, like, who knows, maybe you have more babies and then maybe you change your, your, your, your practice and who knows?

Speaker 3 [30:49]
But right now is a time of you get to just sit in this space, give thanks and gratitude and grieve, start the grieving process now, and I think that's something that this book that has been integrated into my life now fully is always be grieving but never be like in it. It's this like you're never not going to. You're always in the now. The past is always gone and the future is not there. So there is always this perpetual sitting in the grief of what was. So why not just say thank you so much and give it gratitude, because you are no longer going to be that in the future?

Speaker 3 [31:31]
I don't know, but that's something that, like, these gates, allow you to do. They allow you to sit in it over this extended period of time, if it's your first 10 months, or if it's just the last month of your pregnancy, or if it's, you know, postpartum, because we're still shedding that first, first 40 days, quite literally and metaphorically. That is where the transformation truly begins. The birth is just the beginning.

Speaker 2 [32:02]
So right, right, I want to. I want to go deeper into. I think an important part, kind of for all medicine is like the intergenerational trauma, or the trauma that we hold, you know, from our mothers, from our grandmothers and from all of our life experiences. And then we can go deeper into ancestral trauma too, but our 12 hour podcast life experiences, and then we can go deeper into ancestral trauma too, but Our 12 hour podcast.

Speaker 2 [32:36]
I kind of want to hear, like, your take on that and and and what? Yeah, what are your beliefs around the trauma that's held and how it's passed down to through the baby? And it's so interesting because there's so many new studies too.

Speaker 3 [32:44]
So I mean it would the scientific area is one of my favorites as an as a non-scientist who's married to a scientist, it's really fun to pretend like I'm a scientist. My husband's a microbiologist, so all we talk about is the gut microbiome, which is literally generational, which is just so fun. But I think the top the genetic and the the physical exchange of your genetic material within generations is so it is literally a proof of the spiritual journey. That is how I see epigenetics. It's proof of the tangible spiritual karmic journey and you can see it with you know, I was in my grandmother's womb, right, so were you.

Speaker 3 [33:43]
And the fact that if my grandmother was famined, was harmed, was sitting in a space of unworthiness, how did that go to my mother and then to me? Or, in opposite, was actively healing, was working through trauma, was able to leave a situation that made them uncomfortable, how did that transform into my mother and then to me? So how does that live on the spiritual and the physical, on the physical realm? So for me, my belief system is we hold the base fears of all of our ancestors, that's the genetic code. The base fears create the evolutionary change, creates us to be a better version of our physical self, or protective right or a protective version of ourselves. The spiritual aspect that is passed down is the tool that can then change the physical. So when the karma is passed down, when the spiritual past life trauma is passed down, every generation is given a certain amount of tools to then fix, heal or integrate and move on that kind of cycle. So that's kind of my belief

Speaker 3 [35:12]
structure.

Speaker 3 [35:12]
I think it's all kind of melded into one and I think you can work through that in every different way. You can do it through mind, body, soul work with you know, working with a naturopath and healing yourself through your gut microbiome. You can do that through energy work, through doing past life journeys, through doing kind of integrative inner child work. You can do it through a mental health journey and working through the emotional trauma. And my hope for most people is that you do all three, because that's a wham bam thank you, ma'am, get it all out of the way.

Speaker 3 [35:51]
But there's all of these different avenues of really exploring your karmic genetic wounds and I think every generation on a whole is given very specific tools and mindsets to allow that to occur and I think we can really see that play out specifically in the Western kind of generational splits of, like the boomers, like silent generation, the boomers, gen X, millennials and Gen Z, we can really see the arc of the generational healing and how it can be rapid and then it can be very slow. So it's similar to, you know, genetic evolution. But yeah, I guess that's my what I think about it and I think that the goal is to always be actively healing as far as you can go, because you might not be able to take it all the way to the end.

Speaker 3 [36:47]
And that is why we keep procreating. The next generation adds on and keeps moving and moving forward towards whatever enlightenment we believe in.

Speaker 1 [36:58]
How does that feel?

Speaker 2 [37:02]
I agree with you completely on that and I think to me, like I never dug in personally into the intergenerational part until being forced to look at it during pregnancy, I think a lot of people you know I mean anybody can at any time in their lives, especially as they know their family history or you know what's occurred and how that affects them, and so I think it's like a huge part, especially in pregnancy, if you can use that and transmit that energy and work on it during this time. But I have so many patients too that you know have trauma or went through different things or their parents did, and and it's such a huge component and a push that you to help release that and and like, and it takes many different ways and methods to do it as well.

Speaker 3 [37:51]
That's interesting. It brings up for me um, there was the famine studies, um and epidemiology, where they were taking in, um, they were looking at the genes of people like the Irish famine and how that obesity has been rising and that has been the fact that people who are, you know, four generations removed now are of a larger cell mass, because the first generation of famine were so famished that they needed to protect themselves and their body to retain more to survive, and I see that as like a really fascinating, beautiful thing.

Speaker 3 [38:30]
Right, our body was creating a scenario to heal, but then we put on top of that emotional trauma of is that actually okay to say, be a bigger person, or if you're eating correctly, and what does the gut microbiome say? And how is that all interplaying? And what it does is it allows the body to heal the past but then also, in a weird way, harm the future. And what our mental health and our spiritual journey can do is link the two, is accepting what our physical form actually is and how to actually heal it in a way that isn't about the gene expression but about thanking it for what it did, and that's just. That was something that I would have been looking at and I just thought it was really fascinating of, like gosh, the bigger we're getting is because we were famined, and that's so sad but also so cool, and so thank you for doing that for us, but also we don't need that now. So how do we heal the little bugs that live in our guts? To call in food that is nourishing and will heal those cells but also give us clarity of mind and spirit, and I think that's a really cool.

Speaker 3 [39:51]
Those are some. I should have put down the studies, but there's a couple of different studies through them. I think they were through Nature, I think they're published in Nature, but really really really cool about how the physical self can express healing and how does our mind and our body and society allow, allow that to heal. And it might might take generations, and that's something too I also think that we have to think about of. When it comes to intergenerational healing, it's not always all up to us as the individual that's a big burden to carry for a lot of for a lot of people, and, I think, a lot of people who are on the healing path.

Speaker 3 [40:34]
That is that expectation of well, I broke the cycle. Cool, you broke the cycle. Maybe that's just it. You broke the cycle.

Speaker 3 [40:44]
You know we can think of that with any sort of diseases, like, say, like alcoholism and things like that, Like cool, like alcoholism was a part of this lineage. I don't drink anymore, but that doesn't mean that my future children do not have the gene. So what examples do you do and bring in to perpetuate a new cycle to be born? But maybe you are just the cycle breaker and it's your children who are the ones who create the new paradigm. And so I think it allows us to, it gives us grace in looking back at unhealed generations, never excusing bad behavior but also going that's as far as they could go.

Speaker 3 [41:25]
I can go this far and let's build upon it.

Speaker 3 [41:28]
But, yeah, I think intergenerational trauma is fascinating because it's such a new science, it's such a new exploration. I think for a very long time on a spiritual level, people have been doing it through shamanic work, but it's now taken up to a point where it is grounded in the reality of, of like earthbound reality. So there's a um. I think it's just going to be a fascinating kind of science to explore for the next 20 years, um, and to see how it fits within your life. Maybe, maybe it's too much, especially when you're pregnant. How far do you want to go down the rabbit hole, right? How much work do you do, right? So, and that depends on your personality, but I, you know, this is something I want to, I want to share while I'm on this.

Speaker 3 [42:24]
So, when I was pregnant with my first child, she would not allow me to use any divination tools. I had to take literally 10 months off from using a tarot card or a pendulum, and it forced me to reflect on other areas of my spirituality, of my spirituality and I think that's something really fascinating on how maybe a generational karma can be expressed while you're pregnant is listening to the little entity that's within your womb and not pushing them, and how healing that could be. I was able to put that down. I had another job that didn't affect my child. It wasn't. My income Made me sad, but for some reason their generational trauma was saying no, no, no. You cannot divine while I'm within you. And that can go for other things too. I think, on a scientific level, of some children causing parents to have say to certain things, and they're only allergic when they're pregnant baby isn't allergic, but it's just not good for them, so you're not allowed to have it come out.

Speaker 3 [43:36]
There's no egg allergy there's no peanut allergy parent is fine, but during that moment in time it says absolutely not. We have to force you to stop because I do not want you to perpetuate whatever genetic shit you're going to put all over me. But I thought that I always think that's I always tie that back into a real in time way of working with intergenerational trauma is literally listening to the child within your womb and how powerful it is to respect their voice and how healing that one little moment is. And yeah, you can, you're human. You're gonna push through and pull a tarot card and then feel sick afterwards. You know you're gonna do that. You're gonna work, know you're going to do that. You're going to work too hard, you're going to eat something you don't want to eat. But it's the I, it's the accumulation of listening to them versus not, and I think that's such a foundational mindset to sit in when you're actively working with intergenerational trauma.

Speaker 2 [44:47]
Yeah, no, I, I think that's a huge point too. I've noticed that like just in myself my normally I get like a huge amount done and my brain works at a certain capacity and all these different things, and it's been like my husband says, it's a huge gift right because I always have that balance. It's like the mind and the heart and I always have to go with the heart. But it's this battle for a little bit before I get there, but I've been so tired. The mind's been working and it's been more hard. It's been this huge gift right because I but I can't. There is no other way you literally do it, it's impossible you're growing something inside of you.

Speaker 3 [45:26]
It's exhausting.

Speaker 2 [45:28]
Take a break, yeah, and it gives you all these different signs.

Speaker 3 [45:31]
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 [45:34]
That you need to pour that time for sure, and whether you want to or not, yeah, and what it?

Speaker 3 [45:39]
does, is it also shows you your support system, right. So it shows you the fact that like your husband's like yeah, no, like listen, like wow, they're holding space for me, even in the simplest term, is reminding me, yeah, like I shouldn't push myself. Or if you have a larger community or elders within your family doing the same thing of like nope, we'll make dinner, we'll take care of you. Or you know what, we know you have to work because you need an income, but right, when you're done you're off the clock. You know it's creating that space of listening to your body. Or you might be one of those people who can run a marathon, you know it's either. Or some people, just that baby is like, no, I'm a jackrabbit and you're gonna clean your house five times a day and run a marathon. So really just listen to what your body is saying, because your body is the conduit of that child's.

Speaker 3 [46:41]
And then, whatever spiritual practice you have, if you can sit and see, if you can attune to what your belief structure is of spirit, and seeing if you can witness what their voice is and what their wants are and what their needs are, I think is really powerful too, and I think that's the thing about that kind of healing the trauma. It's just giving respect where respect is due. This is an individual, this is a human being, this is something that is being birthed and their soul has allotted them to make it this far, to be born, you know. So give it the respect to be an individual and have its own wants and needs. To a point, you know, when they're three it's a whole other thing, but when they're in the womb, Definitely, definitely.

Speaker 2 [47:34]
So I want to ask you one more question, and that's so outside of birthing and pregnancy and that whole thing. I want to hear more about what you're doing and the different intuitive healing practices that you practice on a day-to-day basis, and how our readers can benefit from these or explain them a little more if they haven't heard of them.

Speaker 3 [47:56]
Of course. So I am a traditional tarot reader. That's the basis of my clientele, so I read tarot and oracle cards and do a mild coaching model within that. So I'll have people that I work with monthly. And then I also do Reiki and energy healing on a more shamanic level. So my energy work is based around connecting with your intuition, your guides and your spiritual path. So I also hold in-person and virtual sessions for all of these things.

Speaker 3 [48:36]
I add in astrology as well, to attune to the core essence of who you are and how you need to be worked with and heals. And I would say the biggest foundation of my practice right now is working with people who are in need of learning about spiritual consent. This is something that has been very, very important to me over the past few years of working with either healers or practitioners of any mind-body fields about learning how to work with spirit and other people's intuition in a consensual way. It's been a passion of mine to bring people back from being scared or harmed or misguided in this realm, and that's been something that has been really important to me. So I've been hosting a group called the spiritual, the sacred spiral, which is all about focusing on how to ground yourself into reality, to give intuitive yourself into reality, to give intuitive, intuitive guidance in a way that is graceful, respectful and not harmful, and that's been a really, really big thing for me. So, yeah, so classically, I am a tarot reader, astrologer, and I perform energy healing and my core belief values and what I do is based around spiritual consent and, um, it's been a really really beautiful to sit with people who have been either harmed or misguided in this realm and, um, give them their power back, which has been fun. Them their power back, which has been fun, fun for me.

Speaker 3 [50:27]
So you can find me on my website, lauramahannacom. You can book me virtually. I live in Connecticut now. So, if you live in Connecticut, I take in-person clients and I host classes and workshops virtually and in person in Connecticut, and maybe one day do a retreat maybe I don't know, we'll see. That's a lot of work and yeah, so that's who I am. I am an intuitive guide and I use multiple different tools to help guide you through your experience. And, yeah, I will, I do work, but no longer birth work right now, maybe when my kids are a smidge older. That is my boundary.

Speaker 2 [51:13]
That's good. It's good to have boundaries with that too. I'll be sure to post your website and everything on the podcast and on the website and on YouTube and everywhere else so everyone can find you.

Speaker 3 [51:25]
And it, it's, it's I. I have really enjoyed this and it's like chatting with a friend, so now I'm just gonna act like my crazy self you know it's, it's.

Speaker 2 [51:39]
It's been great. I've had a lot of fun. Thank you so much thank you and um, yeah, and then buy the book on amazon.

Speaker 3 [51:48]
It's, it's in print in perpetuity on amazon. So I know it's jeff bezos, but you know I'll put that.

Speaker 2 [51:54]
I'll be sure to put the link on for that too, so everyone yeah, yeah, um.

Speaker 3 [52:00]
So yeah, it's always on print demand, which was pretty cool, so always be out there okay, well, thank you very. Thank you and I will talk to you soon, hopefully. Okay, take care, bye, bye.